"John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.". And to say that those who believe are unconditionally elect is not at all necessarily deduced from their believing. It is to be noted that God has other purposes in the preaching of the Gospel than the salvation of His own elect. This physical election was merely a type of the spiritual election that was to come under the New Covenant and which Israel did not, as a whole, attain to: I ask then, did God reject his people? My choice is the tie-breaker." The elect or chosen people in the New Testament are believers from all nations. Why doesnt everyone respond positively to the Gospel? God is the only one who knows the real from the counterfeit. by Matthew Mead, here or here. In that God is a God of truth, we know therefore that that these overtures are genuine and therefore they apply in the same way for the same purpose to all those hearing them. The Merciful Mystery of Unconditional Election Article by Jon Bloom Staff writer, desiringGod.org Election is a topic currently absorbing the attention of Americans (and a watching world), given the significant political event about to take place in the United States. Predestination in Calvinism - Wikipedia Read or subscribe:https://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/do-the-non-elect-have-a-chance-to-repent These doctrines are not merely ancillary to the core of the message as good news to the hearers, they are destructive of it. New anti-gospel, deterministic prospects come into play. If you pick and choose some ideas and don't put them in the context of all the other ideas it stops making much sense. Rather, these elect people will unfailingly come and if God is working in them then they are already regenerated and they will unfailingly believe. At the same time, however, Scripture says in effect, "Focus, rather, on your own life. Neither does it confirm the truth of such a doctrine. The Calvinist response that You dont want justice, otherwise we would all be damned is theologically superficial and that God did not have to save any sinners and to save some demonstrates his grace only begs the question by presuming the truth of Calvinist unconditional election. This scenario is actually affirmed by Lutzer when he states, What you need to do Lutzer calls for people to respond to God and Christ. Those who raise questions and concerns the so-called motor boaters whose reaction is I dont like that at all are told that they ought not to complain too much. Lutzers bargaining question, That fair enough?, is ironic given that a concern and substantive criticism of the doctrine of election as unconditional has to do with Gods character as just and fair. This is incompatible with a gracious inclusion of all sinners in the saving work of Christ and therefore a genuine call to a decision to accept Christ as savior. And Lutzers redirection you can find out whether or not you are a member of the elect is not helpful at all, does not address the fundamental problem here and totally misses the point. The Bible tells us nothing of two classes of Christians. They will find him because it isn't dependent on them in the first place (this is where irresistible grace comes in). They cannot even believe. PDF Calvinism vs. Arminianism vs. Evangelicalism The 5 Points of 15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood. When you have a moment, please visit our. The Bible nowhere instructs us to be concerned regarding our status of elect vs. non-elect. rev2023.7.7.43526. His people were now the elect from all nations. Covenant and Law (including New Covenant Theology), Sovereign Grace (the Doctrines of Grace, Calvinism, the TULIP), Biblical Typology (Types and Shadows in the Bible), Issues (religious, political, and societal controversies), Spanking Children in Light of the New Covenant, You Are My Disciples, If You Have Love for One Another. . Calvinists are Christians and Calvinists and non-Calvinist Christians share a multitude of common ideas and I mean you motor boaters yeah but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but. Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see. The sinner is sent out onto a dark soteriological wilderness in search of knowing that premundane decision of God regarding their eternal destiny whether they were predestined to heaven or hell. The Table Of The Lord - The Purpose Of Communion, Pagan Practices, Customs And Roots Of The Catholic Church, Catholicism Versus Gods Word Regarding Idolatry. It is not at all evident that those who believe in Jesus are doing so because of their unconditional election. All non-elect people cannot and will not go to heaven. ARE YOU OF THE ELECT OR NON-ELECT? - My Thoughts The whole matter seem to be tautological. Rather than the gospel being truly evangelistic (evangel means good news), that is, confidently and genuinely proclaiming to all people that God has made a way of salvation and that they too can be saved by putting their faith in Christ, it is inverted into a particular, exclusive, mysterious determinism that causes people to want to know whether they have been divinely assigned to eternal life or eternal damnation. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Lutzer ends up challenging the sinner to receive the salvation God provided by his grace and is offered to all to be received by faith. While I like the way that you constructed your answer, can you take that last extra step and link it to reformed theology? Yes God does hate the reprobate and does not desire to save them. So we see that the way Lutzer tells people what they need to do and calls upon persons to respond to God and Christ in humble faith and trust is not consistent with his presupposition that election is defined as God having a limited number of people he has predestined to save, and that the whole process is unconditional. The world exists for the elects sake yet others have the benefit of it. And in the process he reveals how superfluous the doctrine really is. By definition, the eternal destinies of the elect and non-elect must fall under God's foreordination and control. But that is the way he makes it appear. There is no good news to be proclaimed. Purpose of the b1, b2, b3. terms in Rabin-Miller Primality Test. [3] If Lutzer is going to talk about what is fair, then it is both fair and legitimate to ask what is fair about unconditional election. While I'm taking a risk by quoting just one verse--and only a portion of a verse at that--to support my contention, I'll venture forth, going where angels fear to tread: "There is none that seeketh after God" (Romans 3:11b). In telling sinners what they must do to be saved, his deterministic doctrine of unconditional election becomes irrelevant. Arguments against Calvinism and Predestination - Kansas State University May it never be! 1. I have planned. Those who are unconditionally elect, believe, and if you want to know whether you are unconditionally elect then believe. "And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.". Now, if you think that's an odd way to think, listen to the . Psalms 10:17 Lord, thou hast heard the desire of the humble: thou wilt prepare their heart, thou wilt cause thine ear to hear: Matthew 7:7-8 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. And doctrinally it presents a distraction from the good news and confuses the hearers. One of the weaknesses of RT in this regard is that it seems to assume (case in point: your 3rd paragraph) that once the seeking starts it will culminate in saving faith. Lutzer has told us, you can find out whether or not you are a member of the elect.. That tag carries with it a need for that context. 9-11). According to Lutzer's Calvinism " if God is working" and " if the Spirit is working" these just are that person's regeneration. When you say only God initiates the search, is that the same thing as what we Catholics refer to when we say that we answered God's call to (eventually receiving) God's grace via baptism? When Lutzer calls sinners to do something to know if they are elect believe on Jesus, stop trusting, trust wholly in, transfer your trust, coming and receiving he is making their election or salvation contingent or conditional upon these dispositions and actions of the person themselves. Lutzer ends up telling people the good news that they can be saved by faith, and that they must believe. You must believe to be saved. Ephesians 1:3-14. As such, God will bring about in the elect whatever needs to occur in their desires, attitudes, beliefs and actions so that they will savingly believe on Jesus. God will work to overcome their darkness, overcome their unbelief and they will savingly believe on Jesus. In that election or salvation is unconditional, this is solely the work of God. Can an Elect Person Die Without Hearing the Gospel? - Desiring God The Bible speaks of those to whom God comes with the message of salvation and yet they reject him, they reject Jesus and they resist the Spirit. I will say this, however: Baptism does not MAKE a Christian; baptism only MARKS a Christian--at least it should . If we can learn anything from this passage in Isaiah it is that God is only interested in hearing heartfelt prayers. Hello, I have a question concerning God's relationship with the non-elect (or those who were not appointed to be saved) or those who were not chosen or those whom the Father did not give to the Son or those who were destined to stumble 1 Peter 2:8, etc, etc.. (1) Does God have a genuine care for their health, wellbeing, etc, seeing as they have an eternity of torment which awaits? When we contemplate the urgency of our witness, what we should feel is this: It is absolutely essential for the sake of the elect that I do my evangelism. But to place some responsibility on the person by saying you come implies that the Spirit may be working and yet the person may not want to come or reject the working of the Spirit and not come. Hence the descriptive phrases doctrines of grace or sovereign grace. But here is the inconsistency. When Lutzer says, Thats the only way you can know is by coming to Christ in humble repentance and receiving, by faith, the gift of eternal life, what a person is actually coming to know is how they can be saved, not that they have been unconditionally elected. Answer Simply put, the "elect of God" are those whom God has predestined to salvation. (LogOut/ These elect were to include some Jews, but what nation they were from now made no difference. It is hard to say, seeing as the Bible would imply that the sole purpose of their existence is so that God could bring glory to Himself through judging, sentencing, condemning and tormenting people according to their works Archived post. Although I had abandoned answering any questions here due to the difficulty of posting my answers, I am compelled to give you my perspective. Now, this is surely a distortion of the good news of the gospel. Calvinism and the Problem of Damnation and Hell - SOTERIOLOGY 101 It is Arminianism that gives people a ground for boasting: God elected me because He knew I would believe.. This book declares uncompromisingly that God has a plan for unbelievers as well as believers. God speaks of man kindly, but severely; as one yearning over a lost child, yet as one who will make no terms with sin, and will "by no means clear the guilty." He makes me lie down in green pastures. Our election in eternity is according to Gods purpose and grace and has nothing to do with our works. Arminianism has the cause and effect reversed. What then is the meaning of you come? This seems to be both inconsistent and disingenuous. Psalms 5:5, 11:5 Romans 9:16-18 However we in this life must love these people because the only thing that separates us from them is grace Matt 5:44. Whom he justified, those he also glorified (Romans 8:29-30). 2 days of "and the lord heard me - i have my answers" || nsppd || 6th july 2023 What happens if someone who is not elect tries to seek God? To call people to believe on Jesus, stop trusting your goodness, trust wholly in in the work of Christ transfer your trust to Jesus alone, come to Christ in humble repentance and receive by faith the gift of eternal life, and for them to actually respond positively and believe, is no proof at all of an unconditional election at work. 12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts? This is completely contrary to his Calvinist soteriological doctrines. The good news has been distorted because the preaching of Christ has become irrelevant to a host of non-elect sinners hearing the good news. Indeed, unconditional election has contaminated the gospel so that it is no longer good news. The truly good news has also become irrelevant to the elect within the framework of unconditional election. So, from a Reformed perspective, no one with true faith ever falls away, but one may "[taste] the word of God, and the powers of the world to come" Hebrews 6:5, and lack a sincere relationship with God (a redeemed relationship, that is). That has to be presupposed and read into the situation as the cause of why a person believes. (1) Election does not mean that God merely knew who would believe and on that basis elected them. This every man can do, even as a sinner dead in trespasses and sins because God calls upon him to do it. He adds, if God has worked in your heart which we can take as the doctrine of the effectual call smuggled in so Lutzer can feel he is remaining true to his Calvinist soteriology. - Excerpted from "Objections to God's Sovereignty Answered" Obviously only God knows who "the elect" are, and the Gospel preacher has no need to worry about that when engaged in evangelism. Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. The point is that theologically and practically, unconditional election nullifies the gospel as good news to the hearers and is not verified by the gospel call and invitations that even Lutzer as a Calvinist must resort to in order for him to present good news. The reason why the motor boaters rightly raise buts about unconditional election is precisely because for each and every person who is hearing about their need of salvation through Christs death on the cross to be received by faith, the doctrine of unconditional election obscures the knowledge of Gods positive salvific will for each of them. [] does the mere act of seeking God mean that the person must be elect? He tells sinners to believe on Jesus, stop trusting your goodness, trust wholly in the work of Christ, transfer your trust to Jesus alone [come] to Christ in humble repentance and [receive], by faith, the gift of eternal life. How does that verify that they have been unconditionally elected to salvation from the beginning of the world? All rights reserved. But this is incoherent with irresistible grace, which is what Lutzer is referring to when he says if the Spirit is working But if God is working and if the Spirit is working then the persons salvation is inevitable because they have to be regenerated before they can believe. It is a supernatural event that happens upon the sinner believing. The distinction is not between the elect and the non-elect, but between the saved and the unsaved. How do Christians who believe in libertarian free will respond to R.C. Were Patton's and/or other generals' vehicles prominently flagged with stars (and if so, why)? And I am serious about that. And in presenting the gospel in this way Lutzer presupposes libertarian freedom. So, if man is characterized by total inability, and election is unconditional, and the call is effectual and grace is irresistible, how is it that the person needs to do something as if it is they who can do it or not do it? Isaiah 1:11 through 15 That is their response of reciprocal love and gratefulness to God for the salvation he has accomplished for them in Christ. Here he seeks to answer the question, Who are the elect? Lutzer states, Finally, I want to zero in on the word elect. Who shall lay anything to the charge of Gods elect? So who are the elect? We dont. Gods sheep will hear their Shepherds voice and follow Him (John 10:27) when God sees fit to regenerate them. If He does not do it, it does not get done! There is no good news in Calvinist soteriology. My Hope America Reflections on Two Incompatible Gospels, A Christians Reflections on an Election in America, Christian Reflections on the Present Turmoil in America. In the Old Testament, God uses it to refer to the nation of Israel: For you are a holy people to the LORD your God. We are usually told that no one really knows who is elect and who is not. All Scripture is quoted from the King James Translation. 3:10-12). He does not think that it speaks to the invalidity of his Calvinist interpretations of Scripture. From Sandy Hook to Uvalde: A Moral Tragedy or Triumph of DNA? The divine decree does not bear symmetrically on the elect and the non-elect. Whether my following statement does or does not reflect a Reformed, Calvinist perspective, I do not know, but here goes: Dead men and women do not seek after God. Fast forward to eternity. It is they who must accept the gospel. In that God cannot lie, he cannot speak an invitation to salvation and only have it apply to an elect group while that same invitation to salvation is heard by a non-elect group. So do people, by coming, prove themselves members of the unconditionally elect, as it seems Lutzer has lead us to believe, or, do people show that they are already members of the limited number of the unconditionally elect, and therefore only come by an effectual working of God, which Lutzer has also lead us to believe and must believe as a Calvinist? That the Bible uses the words elect and chosen to refer to some people is indisputable. These are the evidences that the person is among the elect and already "born-again.". In short, Jesus is teaching us to self-sacrificially love everyone, even our worst enemies, because that reflects the very nature of God Himself. Electing Love | Christian Library The point is that Lutzer ought to speak consistent with his soteriological doctrines. And in the remainder of the New Testament it is used nine times: Romans 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? They were in the same position as the Gentiles whom God had graciously saved because He had chosen them. It is preoccupied with a static, unalterable inclusion of those who are elected unconditionally to salvation, which entails a static unalterable exclusion from salvation for everyone else. The assurance of Gods love and the saving applicability of Christs death on behalf of you or me or anyone else is placed in doubt. If anyone seeks God, they are the elect. If unconditional election is true do we worship God in vain? How can I know if I am one of the elect? | GotQuestions.org The pagan Samaritans, who were detested as enemies of God. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. The direct relationship between the sinner and their Savior and the salvation which is found in him is severed by a premundane divine decree that has determined who will and who will not be saved. Browse other questions tagged, Like any library, Christianity Stack Exchange offers great information, but, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Why add an increment/decrement operator when compound assignments exist?